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Everyone is interested in how men and women can get along these days. The model Allen and Dan offer is different. No more “we’re from different planets.” As our regular listeners know, Dan is working on a new book, What Men Would Tell You If They Weren’t Too Busy Watching TV with his good friend Dr. Allen Berger. Allen is back on the podcast this week— as he is the third week of every month— to share more of the “whys and hows” behind the book.

In this episode, Dan and Allen talk about why they chose to write a book specifically for women. The Man Rules tend to prohibit men from being truly open and honest about who they are and what they need. It can be difficult for women to find a way in, in order to develop a deeper connection. The book is all about helping women create an opening in the relationship where there wasn’t one before. Through the questions and conversation topics Dan and Allen suggest in the book, women may once again be able to see their relationships as places of endless possibility, almost as they did when they first met their man. To help illustrate those possibilities, Dan and Allen share examples from their work with couples and from their own lives and relationships.

The book, however, is not about women having to change who they are in order to make that connection. Part of the secret is women learning not to take their partners’ behaviors personally. Dan and Allen cannot emphasize enough that if a man is acting inappropriately or in any way abusively, the woman has no role to play in “fixing” that.. That woman should put down the book and get professional help for her safety and to help heal or end the relationship.  

As Dan says, “At the end of the day we’re really just trying to provide a resource for women to get a better look at the inner lives of men. We want to create a little more compassion and empathy providing a different perspective on their man’s behavior.”

There is no question that our society is deeply interested in how men and women get along these days. And there are certainly models that have attempted to negotiate that. What Allen and Dan are doing is a different approach. No more of this different planet crap. This is two men who are very committed to growing in their relationships with the women in their lives. They believe part of the solution is helping women better understand men from a conscious man’s perspective.

We’d love to hear what you think about this episode, AND/OR to hear about your experiences with the Man Rule we’ll be covering next month: Don’t cry. Please email [email protected] with your questions and comments. Or reach out on Facebook or Twitter.

Practical and Tactical

1. Pay attention to your typical way of responding to a problem and see if you can start to identify a pattern. Do you have a habitual way of responding? If so, try doing the opposite for a week. For example, if you tend to react negatively when he asks you to help him find his car keys for 1 millionth time, try to react positively. See what happens. This is about being happy – not being right!

About Our Guest

Allen Berger, Ph.D., is an internationally recognized expert in family and couples therapy, and in the science of addiction and recovery. He is best known for his work on integrating modern psychotherapy with the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and for his insights into emotional sobriety. He is also recognized for his outstanding work as a psychotherapist and trainer.

He brings a highly unique background to his profession. His own personal journey in recovery started in 1971, on the beautiful island of Oahu, Hawaii. There he fell in love with recovery and with helping people find their way out of the abyss of addiction into the light of recovery. He overcame dropping out of high school, and received a doctorate in clinical psychology from UC Davis in 1987.He was trained and mentored by two brilliant clinicians: William C. Rader, M.D. and Walter Kempler, M.D..

He is the author of several journal articles as well as two books: Love Secrets – Revealed (HCI Books, 2006) and the bestseller, 12 Stupid Things that Mess up Recovery (Hazelden, 2008)). His pamphlet How to Get the Most out of Group Therapy (Hazelden, 2007) helps new admissions understand the process of group therapy and how to use the group to optimize their experience in treatment.

His office is located in Southern California where he divides his time amongst private practice, teaching, writing and playing tennis.

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It’s been said that men are women are from totally different planets. All of the struggles they have in relating to one another are a result of the fact that they are just two totally different species, and the only way to bridge the gap is to study the culture, habits, and communication styles of the other and try to adapt the best you can.

There’s only one, small, potential problem with that approach. It may put some of us in a mindset that, when communicating with our partners, we should seek primarily to be understood rather than to understand. Or perhaps we resign ourselves to the idea that we will never truly understand or know our partner. It sets you up to think that your relationship is about developing the best offense or defense based on what you know about your opponent’s playing style. It’s more about protecting and less about connecting.  

Dan says that it’s more like men are from France, and women are from Spain. They do both speak different languages, but the words in each language come from the same root. (i.e. Latin.)    

That’s why Dan is working on a new book, What Men Would Tell You If They Weren’t Too Busy Watching TV with his good friend Dr. Allen Berger. Allen is back on the podcast this week to help explain the aim behind the book, and to give a few pointers on beginning a process of healthy struggle with your partner. Dan and Allen share tips on how to stay connected during the day-to-day ups and downs of your relationship, and how to allow your difference to make you stronger as individuals, and as a couple. You’ll also hear a preview of the 10 Man Rules Dan and Allen will cover in upcoming episodes – as well as in their forthcoming book.

We’d love to hear what you think about this episode, AND/OR to hear about your experiences with the Man Rule we’ll be covering next month. Please email [email protected] with your questions and comments. Or reach out on Facebook or Twitter.

Practical and Tactical

Tune in to The Man Rules podcast the third week of every month, to hear Dan and Allen break down the following Man Rules:

1. The Don’t Cry Rule
2. The Always Be in Control Rule
3. The Don’t Be Vulnerable or Weak Rule
4. The Success Rule
5. The Protector Rule
6. The Fight Rule
7. The Be Cool Rule
8. The Sex Rule
9. The Winning Rule
10. The Know It All Rule

Mentioned in This Episode

Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus – John Gray

Dr. Walter Kempler

I and Thou, Martin Buber

Alexythymia

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A major shift is happening in how we view gender, sexuality and violence. Many people, like our guest Mary Woods, see echoes of the 60s civil rights movements in this modern era of protest and consciousness raising. But, many men feel confused about their place in these movements. In the stories we hear day after day, men are the perpetrators of the sexual violence, racial violence, and gun violence. Much of the conversation focuses on how to change men–and no doubt, change is needed. But, as Dan often says, “We can’t just change what men think, we have to change what we think about men.”

Change cannot happen when people are silenced or dismissed. The Women’s Movement has had its success through teaching women how to understand the day-to-day mechanics of their oppression and the importance of speaking out against them. In order to speak out, they had to build a huge community of people who would lend their support and make it safe for them to speak out and take action.

We have to do the same for men.

In this episode Dan and Mary talk about the ways that we can support men as they confront the injustices of their socialization as men (i.e. be the biggest, the baddest, the richest, the meanest), wrestle with their relationships to power, and try to build a canal through the muddy waters of gender expectation.

Practical and Tactical

1. Sit down with someone of a different gender and ask them “What is your experience like living in our society today? What was living in your family like? And listen. Then, ask yourself if your ideas and perspectives changed, even just a little.
2. Look at the history of the women’s rights movement, the civil rights movement, and treatment of veterans. If you don’t study your history, you’re doomed to repeat it.
3. Join a group that will help you look at things from a different perspective. Joining with others to tell the truth about your experiences and listen closely as they tell the truth about theirs.

About Our Guest

Mary Ryan Woods holds a master’s degree in human service administration, is a Board Certified Licensed Registered Nurse and a Licensed Alcohol and Drug Abuse Counselor, who has over 37 years’ experience in substance abuse services and community mental health programs. Woods began her career in the addictions profession working in a variety of settings. Currently, she is the Executive Officer for WestBridge Community Services a private, nonprofit organization dedicated to the treatment of individuals and families with co-occurring mental illness and substance use disorders. WestBridge has programs in New Hampshire and Florida. She is a Past President for NAADAC the association of addiction professionals.

Mentioned in This Episode

WestBridge

Dual Diagnosis

The Post (movie)

George Carlin

All in The Family

The Lion’s Paw (Note: There are several variations of this story.)

Dialectical Behavior Therapy

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Roy Moore. Harvey Weinstein. Bill Cosby. These are “bad guys,” right? They represent the extreme end of the sexual misconduct spectrum. Most men can easily say they don’t identify with any of these guys. They have never done the things these men have done and never would do the things these men have done. There are bad guys, and there are good guys, and they are good guys. They are not sexist. They have mothers! Sisters! Daughters! They would never mistreat women, or speak about them in a demeaning way—End of story. Open and shut case.

But… We all live in The Water. And if we really want things to change for the better for both women and men, we have to take a closer look. In this bonus episode, Dan talks about what sexism really looks like in our day-to-day lives, and explains why men need to reckon with their privilege without getting bogged down in feelings of shame and disempowerment.

Practical & Tactical

1. When someone is talking about their experiences as a woman, person of color, gay person, queer person, transgender person, etc., and your first thought is, “That doesn’t even make sense! That’s not the way I see things!” Pause. Turn any impulse to become defensive into curiosity. Instead of stating all the ways that you disagree with their perspective, ask questions that may help you better understand their perspective.

2. Listen. Listen with full attention, full consciousness, and full humanity.

3. When it is your turn to share your perspective, speak with caveats in order to create a space for you and other to talk about differences without animosity. Mandy Smith, writing for Missio Alliance, offers this excellent advice:

“Beginning with ‘I’d love to hear your perspective on this: I’m thinking…’ or ‘I may be wrong, but…’ creates space for the experience of others. It acknowledges your own subjectivity and invites conversation, trusting that the goal is for us to discover the way forward together. I know that in the white, male world, these kinds of caveats communicate insecurity. To women they communicate humility and invitation. Even if you feel pretty confident in your own opinion, it may be helpful to choose this kind of language for the sake of making space for difference.”

Mentioned in This Episode

Episode 1: How’s the Water? 

Roy Moore
Harvey Weinstein
Donald Trump

About Dan

Dan Griffin, M.A., is an internationally recognized author, thought leader, and expert on men’s relationships and masculinity.

Dan’s work and life is dedicated to exploring and redefining what it means to be a man in the 21st century. Dan is dedicated to helping men be better men by understanding the impact of the Man Rules on their lives and finding the success in their personal lives they are striving for in the professional lives. Griffin’s book, A Man’s Way through Relationships, is the first book written specifically to help men create healthy relationships while navigating the challenges of the “Man Rules,” those ideas men internalize at very young ages about how to be real boys and men. In 2015, Dan was honored to be named a Senior Fellow at the world-renowned leader for treating addiction and trauma, The Meadows.

Griffin’s professional background includes over two decades in the mental health and addictions field. He is also the author of A Man’s Way through the Twelve Steps, the first trauma-informed book to take a holistic look at men’s sobriety. He co-authored Helping Men Recover, the first comprehensive gender-responsive and trauma-informed curriculum for addiction and mental health professionals. Griffin earned a Master’s degree in Sociology from the University of Kansas where his graduate work was the first qualitative study centered on the social construction of masculinity in the culture of Alcoholics Anonymous.

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Cheryl Sharp is an expert on trauma and resilience and a lifelong sailor. So, she knows a thing or two about dealing with rough waters, literally and figuratively. In this episode, she and Dan talk about the stunning cultural tsunami of the #MeToo movement and how it seems to be leveling and rearranging the ways in which men and women are expected to interact with one another. “The Water“–which Dan explains in the very first episode of this podcast–can destroy us, but it can also wash us clean.

If you’re a man who’s hesitant to listen to this one because you’re afraid you’ll hear only more arguments about how men are to blame, take heart. Cheryl has a great deal of empathy for men and the pain in them that often leads to inappropriate behavior. This doesn’t mean that she excuses the behavior–not at all. But, she does believe that the way forward is creating spaces where both women and men can speak openly and honestly about their feelings and their struggles.

Practical & Tactical

1. Know your history. Understand how we got here.
2. Don’t engage in a conversation about this unless you are coming from a place of inquiry. We need to always provide more questions to conversations than answers.
3. In your own personal relationships, try to stay centered. When you feel triggered, use it as an opportunity for you to step back and give yourself a little space so you can figure out where that pain is coming from.
4. Bonus!! Do your work. If #MeToo stories make you feel emotional, whether that’s sad or angry or defensive,  it’s an invitation for you to do some healing. If you stop at feeling angry, the anger will defeat you. #MeToo is a powerful invitation for all of us, no matter where you are on the gender spectrum, to change, grow and heal emotionally and spiritually.

About Our Guest

Cheryl S. Sharp, MSW, ALWF is an Exclusive Consultant to the National Council for Behavioral Health Trauma-Informed Services and Suicide Prevention Efforts.  As part of the trauma-informed care (TIC) team, Cheryl works nationally to facilitate TIC Learning Communities and is a content expert on trauma, resilience and TIC implementation.  Her role as Exclusive Consultant for Suicide Prevention is to work nationally with National Council partners engaged in moving the needle on preventing suicide.  

Cheryl is a person in long-term recovery from mental health and addiction challenges.  She is a nine-time suicide attempt survivor who believes that understanding what happened to people changes the conversation from what is wrong with them.  Sharp has worked with adult trauma survivors for over 30 years and is passionate about the fact that people can and do recover and go on to live happy, healthy and productive lives.

Prior to becoming an exclusive consultant for the National Council, Cheryl started and led all of the National Council’s trauma-informed initiatives.  She led On Our Own of Maryland’s Statewide Consumer Networks as the WRAP Outreach Coordinator and was the Executive Director of the STAR Process located in Arizona as well as serving on their Board of Directors.  Sharp received her BA in Psychology and a BA in Women’s Studies, followed by her Master’s Degree in Social Work from East Carolina University in North Carolina. She has done hospice social work which is also one of her ongoing passions.

Mentioned in This Episode

When Everything Changed by Gail Collins

“The Unexamined Brutality of the Male Libido” by Stephen Marche

bell hooks on the Roots of Male Violence Against Women, The New Yorker Radio Hour

The post Episode 42: Men Overboard, Cheryl Sharp on Navigating the #MeToo Sea Change appeared first on Dan Griffin.

When it comes to my work and women there can often be some confusion. First, some people think that because I am for men I must be against women. Frankly, that is just sad. I will also own that I have not been as outspoken as I could have about how much women’s issues mean to me. Women’s issues ARE men’s issues as well. Just as men’s issues are women’s issues. And all gender issues are all of our issues.

The following is an excerpt from my last book, A Man’s Way through Relationships. It is a section entitled “A Long Way to Go.” You can also listen to the podcast I did with Kristin Walker of Mental Health News Radio called The Year of the Woman that chronicled the powerful lessons I learned about how I can best support women with my work.

A Long Way to Go

I often tell people that a lot of my work comes from a feminist perspective, which gets different kinds of reactions. I explain that feminism simply means that I believe (1) men and women are inherently equal, and (2) we live in a society that is far from acknowledging that truth politically, socially, and interpersonally. Men and women are equal and different. This view can lead men to realize that, even if they do not see themselves as endorsing feminism, they nonetheless agree with its central tenets. It should not have to be so significant that we create a space in our world to acknowledge and honor that women are equal.

It also has to be acknowledged that around the world there is still a war against girls and women that is horrific and claims victims every day. Women are far from being free in many countries where basic human dignities are denied to them. Education and the ability to choose a husband are unavailable to women in certain countries. Others routinely practice female genital mutilation. Sexual slavery and
human trafficking, which also affects boys and men, is epidemic in many parts of the world, and the buying and selling of children as if they are chattel is feeding the pornography business.

David said the biggest change in his understanding of women since coming into recovery is that they “experience a lot of oppression.” Some men see this and other men do not. Yet every human being knows what it is like to suffer, notfeel good enough, and feel powerless. It would seem that this is the place where men need to find compassion for the plight of girls and women in our country and throughout the world. It doesn’t mean we are the bad guys or the problem, but we can either help to change the oppression of girls and women or perpetuate it. That is the choice every man has. Fighting to end this reality has to be a part of our journey in becoming the best men we can be. As a woman said at one of our trainings, “Men’s privilege and white people’s privilege are part of the Water.” I couldn’t agree more.

Nate said, “I have a close relationship with my daughters. I strive to help them become all they can be and to have an equal place in a ‘man’s world.’” We have to look at what we have internalized and see how it shows up in our lives. I see it all the time with me, if only in how often I still objectify women sexually, as well as in some of the judgments that still come up for me regarding women’s intelligence or competence.

If you want to have healthy relationships with the women in your life and you want to help raise your daughters or your friends’ and neighbors’ daughters or your nieces to be strong, beautiful, intelligent, and powerful women, you have to pay attention to this. All of the men I interviewed with daughters talked about how conscious they were of the fact that their daughters learned from them how to be treated by men. Mark said about his daughter, “She is a dream, and I am always looking for ways to teach her how to be treated by men.” I know that how I treat Nancy teaches Grace everything about how men treat women and about the man I am. I will never be perfect, but I pray that Grace will always see a father, even when he is angry or upset, who chooses peace, respect, and love. Ray said this about raising his daughters: “I feel a great responsibility to show them what it is to be an honorable man.” Amen.

If you are interested in reading more of my book or purchasing it you can go here. If you have already read it please consider rating it on Amazon (apparently those matter!) AND keep your eye out for my new podcast The Man Rules that will be launching next month!

HAPPY INTERNATIONAL WOMAN’S DAY!

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